and Paste the email text I sent them into their supplied fields. I wonder if Alice could have done the same thing? I'll ask them while I'm at it and also mention that they spelled Categories "G"ategories on their site - just in case their amazing attention to detail hasn't caught that
yet and then I clicked submit. I get back from them:
Excellent, I read "This is a notification for resolution of your issue. Please, see bellow." ("bellow"? maybe they mean "below" but I'm about to get my answer so I'll pass it by).
So their response (in the RESOLUTION SECTION of their email) is
a) We're going to ignore the question about the loose part completely and
b) We can't send you the instructions "BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT LICENSED"! Humm, they didn't mention anything about licensing in their ad. I've never heard of that, my friends have bought fill stations from other places that came in a printed box, with instructions, wrapped in bubblewrap and no other store or instructions ever said anything about licensing.
That's it? Hey, wait a minute here - here's their motto right under the "resolution" "Customer satisfaction is our utmost intention." They
apparently consider "We can't... " to be enough of an answer to resolve the issue and mark it closed as of 6/17/2004 5:26:12 PM. At least it looks like they're working past 5pm, but since I'm in Central Time and they're in Pacific it might only be 3:26pm their time. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and figure they were working late.
And what's this in the LEGAL Disclaimer about this email being copyrighted by o2 Sports? I initiated the contact and created the initial email. They added to it, but the original work is mine. How can they claim to copyright it?
Oh well, that's beside the point - maybe they just don't want anyone else to see this unsatisfactory answer. (Oh, and by the way, the Privacy Act 47 USC Sec. 227 b(2)(B)(ii)(I)
they quote with all the scary "fines, imprisonment and/or civil charges" part - refers to telephone solicitation and fax usage to the best of my knowledge it has nothing to do with email. The new email bill that everyone is always quoting didn't make it through Congress. So that part looks scary but doesn't mean anything. By day I'm an email administrator (yes, I would rather be Bruce Wayne - wealthy billionaire) so I know a little bit about it).
OK, so I now have no answer about why it was shipped without a printed box and a part loose - but I do know that they never had any intention of sending me an instruction or parts manual. Why - Because I'm Not Licensed! - How do they know I'm not? They never asked. Maybe I am and they should have said "We're sorry, we forgot to ask what your license number is. Please send it to us and we'll get your parts list right out in the mail today! Sorry for the trouble!"
But, they didn't say any of that. They assumed that since I asked I wasn't licensed (forgetting for the moment that that statement is not accurate anyway). I happen to have been playing Paintball for several years. I do know how to operate a fill station. I have friends with fill stations. I know what the parts are and how they work. I was curious given their obvious statement about "Customer Satisfaction" how they would handle it. And in my opinion they fell down on their service spectactularly.
So, feeling very un-satisfied (I wonder if I should also mention that they spell below "bellow" - nope, I'm not really all that happy with their response - let them look for their own spelling mistakes). I logged onto their Customer Support Help Site* and went through the tedious steps required to fill out another "Trouble Ticket" since they closed the first one without asking how I felt about it. Here is my second email to them:
So their response (in the RESOLUTION SECTION of their return email) is
"Please contact my local scuba shop". Does that seem like a valid response to the questions I asked and fit into any one of the resolution solutions that I requested?
I don't think I said anything in the second letter about going diving. I understand that a scuba store might be able to answer my questions. My local paintball store might be able to answer my questions, many web sites might be able to answer my questions - but THE PLACE I ASKED WAS THE PLACE I BOUGHT THE PRODUCT FROM and they tell me to contact my local scuba shop for directions!
Let's look at how they responded to my other points, questions and requests for resolution:
Addressing the loose part?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
Why didn't their ad say you needed a license?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
How about proof they were making an accurate, truthful statement when they said a license was required?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
If a license was still required how could going to my local scuba shop statisfy that requirement?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
Isn't 3A Paintball at this point asking the Scuba Shop to commit a crime for them by instructing an unlicensed person?
How about disputing the observation that it looked like a loose bunch of parts thrown together right before shipping?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
How about addressing the fact that it leaked?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
Why didn't they ask me for my license before accepting my money?
contact my local scuba shop for directions
Admission that Customer service is NOT a priority of 3A Paintball
contact my local scuba shop for directions
A copy of 3A Paintball's license to sell the product.
contact my local scuba shop for directions
A copy of 3A Paintball's certification of the product.
contact my local scuba shop for directions
Changing their eBay ads
contact my local scuba shop for directions
The fact that if I don't hear from them I'll start contacting people who do care about customer service - eBay and the Better Business Bureau
contact my local scuba shop for directions
I haven't yet actually contacted my local scuba shop, but I'm pretty sure that they would not have a clue about how to answer for 3A Paintball's behavior, their ads, or their lack of customer service.
Actually let's take a look at their commitment to customer service.
"Customer satisfaction is our utmost intention."
Just what exactly does that mean, if anything? It doesn't say goal, it doesn't say our watchword, it doesn't say "we are committed to" it says "intention". I "intend" to win the lottery. I doubt that it will happen, but I "intend" for it to.
We make every effort TO PLEASE our customers
If the two, one sentence, responses I got are their version of "EVERY EFFORT TO PLEASE" I would hate to see what they consider only "some", "minimal" or "a pretty good" effort.
and look forward to receiving the same from our customers."
I looked forward to receiving a non-leaking, professionally manufactured, fill station. Packaged in a professionally created box, with documentation and warranty information. I didn't get that - but I did look forward to it.
At this point I had no expectations that continuing to send them questions and getting back non-topical short answers was going to solve anything so, as a good eBayer should I warned my fellow eBayer's by posting negative feedback for the seller.
I wrote:
Item leaked - it did
No instructions - there weren't
Loose Part - there was
seller refuses to resolve - contact your scuba shop is not a resolution
email for info - I'm happy to tell people about my outstanding experience with this seller
Their response:
We did respond to your emails - yes they did, I never said they didn't. I got one from Alice (I don't envy Alice she must have a hard job) telling me to contact them a different way, two auto-response saying "our system has your emails" and two worthless emails marked "Problem Resolved" that didn't begin to even come close to resolving my issues with this company.
asked to check at scuba shop - why? I bought the product from them. Why with their outstanding intentions of customer service are they asking me to go somewhere else to resolve their problem?
No probl to exchang - They never, ever in any email with me mentioned exchanging or replacing the defective product they initially shipped me.
They then left me a little present of their own - negative feedback for me.
Fails to follow instructions by seller! - The instruction to take their problem to my local scuba shop? That's the only instructions I ever received from them. I'm not hiding an extra email from them that shows they asked me to do anything else.
Blames seller for OWN MISTAKES!! - What mistakes did I make? Trusting a seller with an "intention" for customer service? Not knowing that a company was going to ask me for an apparently fictional "license" not mentioned in their ad? They shipped me a defective product and didn't want to be bothered about it - what part of that is my mistake? I paid them right after the auction closed - same day. As a buyer that was the end of my job.
Then the very best part. Less than 10 minutes (adjusted for the time stamp differences between eBays Pacific time and Kansas Central Time) after they leave me negative feedback they send me an email:
At the point I'm writing this 3A Paintball currently has 13 mutually withdrawn feedbacks. That means that they've waited at least thirteen other times to give a customer negative feedback and then probably sent them a similar email and the poor new guys withdrew their complaints. Maybe some of the withdrawls are legitimate. But when a seller I'm having an issue with gives me a negative, then almost immediately
sends me an email that basically says "hey, can't we work this out?". I have a real problem with that. You'll also notice that the email asking me to withdraw my feedback does not have all those nifty legal disclaimers all over it - wonder why? Could it have anything to do with the fact that they now want me do something for them? Maybe...
I've been an eBay seller almost since eBay began. I sell and buy personal items under the personal id of erict35 and sell items carried by DTBW under the business id of dtbw. Six of my nine negatives on my personal account are from sellers who shafted me. Two are from a user who didn't pay me. One is from a customer who complained when they got their Priority Shipped Item in three days instead of two (it was shipped on April 15th that year - I also don't control the Post Office). I have a
hard won reputation as an honest eBay seller. I subscribe to SquareTrade - that means I'm serious about customer satisfaction. It means I email and then call a customer if I can't get ahold of them. I go the extra mile to make sure my customers are happy. Why? Because I try to treat my customers like I'd like to be treated. I pack things like I'd like to get them. I put forth the effort.
On the other hand 3a-wholesale is a volume seller. In fairness their feedback is mostly good. There does seem to be a growing number of neutral and negative feedback and if you read their positive feedback there does seem to be quite a number of them that also contain problems or are about problems that were corrected - some timely and some eventually.
3a-wholesale seems to respond quite a bit with "what are you complaining about" "read the description" (I did the words "license", "leaking" and "scuba shop" are not in there anywhere). I saw several ads where they have the title saying the product is one thing and the body of the text says it's slightly another - which part was the customer supposed to read more? They seem to blame a lot of the shipping issues on FedEx. I wonder what FedEx thinks of that? It's been my experience that FedEx (and the Post Office) almost never lose a package, especially given the volume of mail they both move daily. And, considering that FedEx tracks everything and you can watch when a package is given to them and what the progress towards the final destination is on their web site, it seems like this would be very easy to prove (or disprove). The "we did everything to fix" quotes I wonder about. I wonder if those "everything's" were as extensive as the effort they put out in my case?
I have reported them to the Southern California Better Business Bureau and to eBay. I don't hold a lot of hope that eBay will do anything because 3A Paintball is an eBay PowerSeller and that means that no matter what they generate a lot of fees for eBay. I was able to help get one eBay PowerSeller who was selling pirated DVD's shutdown but it took me almost seven months to do it. I will be reporting them to the State of California and State of Kansas Bureau of Weights and Measures (or whatever appropriate department) as soon as I can find out what law or statute these supposed "licensing" concerns come under and what, if any, certifications are needed to sell this type of product. In the meantime, research your buys and buy carefully.
And here is the response I got from the Southern California Better Business on July 27th, 2004
07/27/2004
Company ID # : 13212040 Complaint NO.: 10411397
Eric Tolbert
1202 SW Wayne
Topeka, KS 66604
Re: 3A Paintball/o2 Sports - CMPL NO: 10411397
Regarding the company you filed about
3A Paintball/o2 Sports Inc.
193 West Orangethorpe Avenue, #100
Placentia, CA 92870
Although we have tried to obtain a response to your complaint from
the company in the hope of reaching a mutually acceptable resolution,
they have ignored our requests. We are, therefore, closing our file.
Your unanswered complaint will become part of the information we
report to the public on this company for the next three years. Also,
should any government agency request our files on this company, your
complaint will be included.
If you have worked out a settlement directly with this company, would
you please send us a note by email at cmpl@labbb.org or fax at (909)
825-6246 or by mail. Please tell us about the resolution and any
other comments you may have. Your help in doing this is extremely
important to ensure that our reports to the public on this company
is accurate.
Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau.
How about that - they don't answer the BBB either - does this only surprise me?
Some other folks who have had problems with 3A Paintball:
WarpPig
Reseller Ratings
Paintball Gun Reviews
PaintballGun.com
*Note: Just an interesting thing. They don't actually have a working web site. If you go to www.o2-sports.com you get a static picture that says their site is coming - No address, no phone number, no contact information - nada (maybe they consider that working?). However, the Support part of the site, which they keep pounding out in their emails and ads, as the way to contact them works. It's tedious, unnecessary and cumbersome, but it works. They do have a 3A Paintball Website or the Network Solutions Domain Name Lookup Info.
